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Best Fleet Formation
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Red Yorick
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I dont get, in the manual it states that your fleet moves at the speed of the slowest boat in it, but Ive often heard people saying they use a (insert slow ship name here) as flagship and then change to a (insert fast ship name here) to travell faster.
So I be wonderin' here: is the manual 100% correct or not? Confused
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Airsaw
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends on a lot of things. Take an East Indianman. With copper and cotton sails it has better speed over long distances in straight winds than does a sloop. Large amounts of square canvas running with the wind gets you a lot of speed. However, running at sharp angles to the wind, or tacking against it, you lose speed and the sloop is faster. Even a treasure galleon with cotton sails will keep up with say, a frigate well enough not to be a drag on it.

I think the "fast, slow very slow" designations refer to unimproved vessels.
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Red Yorick
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, lets say I only have a fully upgraded war canoe, wich I do, and then take Henry Morgan's large frigate (fully upgraded aswell) with me as a second ship. According to Sashanan's Faq, the first is "very fast" and the latest only "fast".
After meeting both minimum crew number requirement, will my speed be slower now that I have a large frigate in my fleet, or just when Im sailing against the wind.
Please note that Im just considering world travel speed, not combat speed.
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Airsaw
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My guess would be it depends on the wind you're in. In some instances, the frigate should shoot past the canoe, or at least come abreast with it. In others, the canoe should appear to be dragging the frigate. Would the canoe be faster by itself, my guess is yes. That would probably be due to the size of sail in relation to the size and weight of the hull.

Large vessels with large masts and a lot of sail tend to have their prows pushed into the water by wind. The hull resists this force and results in forward movement. You can see this better with a galleon, why it rocks back and forth. A galleon's hull is inefficient in handling these forces.

A war canoe (pinnace, mailrunner) uses a lateen sail, which is broader at the base, putting the stress lower on the mast. The sail surface is greater in relation to the object it's pulling, or dragging along, so you'd get less downward angle, and more horizontal distribution of energy. Canoes also have a shallow draft, which would increase even more this efficient distribution of force.

The hull of a true frigate was designed in the late 18th century, much later than the scenarios in the game. Its object was to improve on the ill effects of drag while still being able to carry cannon. The revolutionary design of its hull, along with the comparable amount of sail it carried, even though requiring smaller and fewer cannon, was a sufficient enough compromise to make ships of the line obsolete. They had smaller profiles, packed less of a punch, but were much faster and way more maneuverable. So much so, the British Navy issued a directive ordering their naval vessels only encounter frigates in groups, and not in single engagement.

In real life, the frigate would be faster in deep water, heavy seas and winds. The "war canoe" would be better in low wind and shallower, calmer waters.
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Red Yorick
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, you sure know your boats!
Thanks a lot for the elaborate answer, I gess Ill just test and try to see how significant are the speed losses when I add different ships to my war canoe. Very Happy
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headrock
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, the main problem with having more than one ship is that you'll ALWAYS be slower than your potential - that means EVEN using two war canoes!!

Due to a feature which may or may nto have been intentional by the designers, the timing and turning of your fleet's movement causes any ship you have to have unsynchronized speed with the first ship. One of the main reasons is that your ships are shown sailing with you, and they are affected by wind direction and condition as much as you do. The split second it takes your second ship to line up in the same direction as the first ship means that for a little while the two ships were in different wind conditions. The difference in speed resulting from this is probably what causes the most fleet slowdowns - EVEN IN TWO WAR CANOES. Personally I sail one ship if I can. I adapt my strategy to fit that ship, and play that way.
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Cp. Kain
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

- Formation-shmormation...
- Speed, guns'n'glory!
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Airsaw
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You notice how I resisted mentioning that the Brig of War has both lateen, and square sails, therefore can scoot along in any wind. How appropriate to begin my long journey to post #2,000 by mentioning the ultimate pirating vessel - THE BRIG OF WAR!

Theg yew beddy much. Shocked
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headrock
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ROFL!!!
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Red Yorick
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm... the way he's talkin about the BoW like its the second coming of J.C. or something, I feel inclined to give it a try.
Medium speed... meh..
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Luiz
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With all the choices and combinations , I have tried to play the game with my Sloop of War and a Frigate. Still looking for that SOL to try out .
AS for speed , your fleet is as fast as your flag ship. If you need to , you can use the flag the sloop or Frigate as a flag ship. it depends on the time of the year in your game. (bottom left corner) the black clouds = storms are more common from July through to November. Wink If you going to travel from the continent to the islands , try and sail on the eastern side (leeward side of the islands or mainland . Sailor
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Airsaw
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't worry about seasons. I tack. The BoW is a mover. I was after Monty going east against heavy winds around Santa Marta. I took a northeast tack, got some better wind, passed him well out of his view, then came back on him from the east. It was like a Porche passing a Lincoln. Vroooom. Large square-rigged ships just kind of luff in winds that BoW eats like candy. A tinderbox like a sloop manages better, sure, so does the matchbox pinnace class. Neither can get up in Monty's face, volley for volley and still have enough gusto to go in for the kill.

Brig of war rocks. Drive what you like, just stay off my scope if you don't want to fuel this week's clambake! Razz
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Luiz
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess it comes with experience in the game like all else.
I real life , I guess it would be different . I sailed the Portuguese tallship S/S Sagres and although great to sail in our modern days I can imagine it in the 16th Century without engines, heating systems, airconditioning and all modern day facilities . Sailor
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Matey...
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On my Adventurer, only a Brig with all things on it. On my main Apprentice though, I got 4 Treasure Galleons, 2 Trade Galleons, 1 Fast Galleon and of course, My sloop.
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Luiz
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You plan on specialising in trading or you just like those monstorous ships ? They are nice for cargo . Still have not come across a SOL Shocked Wink Sailor
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