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More challenging sea fights!
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maturin
Swabbie
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:32 pm    Post subject: More challenging sea fights! Reply with quote

Dear all,

looking for a way to spice up the sea fights, I more and more use the low camera angle during combat. I think this is WAY more fun: It feels much more intense and it's more realistic because it's the captains perspective. You can better enjoy all the design detail and the landscape... and it's much more challenging!

I just encounter one big problem: If I change in low camera angle during the battle, the direction of the wind is NOT displayed correctly in the compass rose! This destroys most of the fun!

I run the SMP APP on a MacBook. Do you encounter the same issue with the DVD version or on PC? Many thanks for your answers!
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ronnraymore
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:59 pm    Post subject: low angle view Reply with quote

I also find that the firing angles are skewed and not usable for effective broadsides. A better view would be from the gunner, no sights from the gun angle make it too simplistic. Also, not being able to choose broadside, at will, or "as she bares" firing really makes the combat awkward and unrealistic. The bizarre stray shots while maneuvering is not realistic at all!( and a real insult.
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Salty Dog
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You ARE using a war canoe, right? That should be priority number one, then the camera angles!
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ronnraymore
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:15 pm    Post subject: War Canoe? Reply with quote

Nope I am using a War Pinnace (aka Mail Runner) that I hijack from a trusting Governor....harharhar!

I find this is a far superior force delivery system once properly outfitted with triple hammocks (120 crew), scantlings, copper, cotton sails, etc. The grape is only if I need to reduce the opposition before boarding.

I've taken on T-Gals, War-Gals, and Evils, except for Montelban ( who is actually a demon and gets his power from the crew around him).

The superior maneuvering avoidance of hits and speed with and against the wind makes this the force delivery system of choice. Very sturdy, with the above add-ons, and cheap to maintain, also best at avoiding the stupid cumulus-nimbus storms that zoom into the frame (with supernatural speed-hundreds of miles per second by scale) from the east side of the sailing board.

I wish I could go back to the initialization when I was given a menu of "enhancements" that included such moronic gimmicks (Thanx Atari) that seem to be Mario/Donkey Kong leftovers...problem with using Atari programmers.
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Salty Dog
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good on you for using a small boat. That captures the real essence of pirating!!!
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ronnraymore
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:34 pm    Post subject: ? ships in this game bear no resemblence to reality Reply with quote

Not so much that small ships give a more exciting experience, this is the only vessel that actually behaves like a real pinnace.

Sloops do not stop forward progress when tacking. As they jib, the forward momentum of 50, 60, 70 tons of weight keeps them moving forward, unlike the sloops in this bogus game.

Brig rigged ships sail into the wind with as much speed as running before the wind when properly handled. Those two big square rigged sails when canted for and aft when sailing into the wind act as effective sails adding to the into the wind speed, sometimes moving faster than the wind speed due to Bernuelli effect:

For horizontal fluid flow, an increase in the velocity of flow will result in a decrease in the static pressure. The equation describing this effect is known as Bernoulli's law. The most practical example of this is in the action of an airfoil.

Brigs also have all that momentum from the tonnage of displacement and will continue forward until the sails fill and Bernuelli takes over.

I had to give up on sloops and brigs because they would stop when tacking into the wind...really stupid people who knew nothing about ships wrote this software, ignoring even the description that this is the best ship design for sailing into the wind...no excuse for ignorance. Simple reading of a vast number of available books on shipbuilding and sailing would have prevented this...shows how little the Atari programmers knew about the subject.

Also, the most glaring stupid, ignorant misrepresentation of ship behavior is that SHIPS DO NOT TWIST IN PLACE...ESPECIALLY SAILING SHIPS!!!!! WHERE THE ONLY POWER TO MOVE COMES FROM THE ACTION OF THE WIND AGAINST THE HULL, SUPERSTRUCTURE, AND SAILS.

Galleons do not twist! stupid... stupid... stupid Frigates do not twist, even pinnaces do not twist. To turn, every vessel, sail or powered, must be moving either forward or aft. This is the only way to change direction. While doing so the vessel will skid to the outside of the turn because of the slippery nature of water and the momentum of the tons of ship and cargo moving in the original direction.

Why do ignorant poorly educated people write programs for systems for which they have no understanding and are too lazy to at least do some simple reading?

The Sea Battle and Tanks programs being offered online are professionally written with the characteristics of each platform fully integrated into the behavior. For this reason I know it can be done when the people creating the program care about what they produce. Atari just knows how to do Mario/Donkey Kong kid games.

I wish I could go into the code and remove this twisting stupidity...anyone know how to do this?
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Roland
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:02 pm    Post subject: Re: ? ships in this game bear no resemblence to reality Reply with quote

ronnraymore wrote:
Also, the most glaring stupid, ignorant misrepresentation of ship behavior is that SHIPS DO NOT TWIST IN PLACE...ESPECIALLY SAILING SHIPS!!!!! WHERE THE ONLY POWER TO MOVE COMES FROM THE ACTION OF THE WIND AGAINST THE HULL, SUPERSTRUCTURE, AND SAILS.

Galleons do not twist!

Most of the things you complain about do not bother me, but this one does. It's as if the AI has decided that if it can't beat you in a fair fight, it will cheat!
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Pirate
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ship combat in the game is simple and not necessary realistic. It's my believe that the game was designed more for the quests and other challenges you must face before getting to old to cut the mustard so to speak. My guess would be the game would be nearly impossible for many folks to play if the ship sailing and combat skills were as realistic as possible. One thing for sure though is the people involved in making the game deserve better then somebody calling them stupid or ignorant. The fact that they made a game at all makes them far smarter than the average Joe. There will be always something about everything we don't like. That's human nature but saying people are stupid because they didn't make the game the way you would like it is uncalled for. I for one wouldn't attempt to do a mod for somebody like that because I am sure they would post how stupid my mod was because it didn't suit their fancy and didn't have a clue on how to make it better themselves.
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ronnraymore
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:25 pm    Post subject: Really? Reply with quote

Doesn't take much skill or knowledge to cobble together a program that is mere conjecture and not spend minimal time researching the subject. The devs obviously were not well educated or they would have taken at least one entry level physics course which would have given them a rudimentary understanding of the forces and how they affect objects. Big ships have all that weight (especially when fully loaded) and are very sluggish in changing direction. The only force providing that redirection of force is the rudder, sails are not that effective. Water must be moving over the surface of the rudder to create the force on the rear of a ship that will, eventually move the rear in that direction, and the bigger the rudder the more force is generated. If no water or so little water as is moving past at 1-2 knots no force that will move the rated tonnage will provide the force to make the rear move, which is what directs the forward momentum and movement of the ship.

Try paddling a canoe to see what I am describing. Load that canoe with as many rocks as you can and see just how easy it is to move that canoe or change direction.

Putting irrational tricks into the game is a cheat and not worthy of the Sid Meier branding. If this were Pirate Mario, or Pirate Frogger...then it would be expected and enjoyed by those who have played those games.

Putting more gators in the river or speeding up the game is not the same as increasing the skill or presenting a more complex scenario. The sword fighting is Mario antics, not anything resembling actual skills... watch the Olympic Fencing Event to get an idea of what it should really be like.

I suppose my understanding of all this is what ruins the simplicity of this game, and my unreasonable expectation that the Sid Meier game I knew and enjoyed so much I became obsessed with it. I just expected a professional product free of bugs and not crashing randomly. When I go to quit the game about half the time the system hangs... blank screen which goes on forever until I unplug and do a cold reboot. Not since Win95 have I had to do this.

Thanks for reading, I just needed to vent all the frustration and explain what I would like for this game to provide. I am hoping that the gamers out there who are knowledgeable and making necessary changes can address more of these stupid dev presentations. Would any of the IT pros out there have been satisfied with the quality of this buggy product? Would you be proud of the accomplishment and brag about how you were responsible for this game?

I doubt it, but if I am wrong, tell me so and why.

Keep the keel in the water.
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Captain Teague
Rigger
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Really? Reply with quote

ronnraymore wrote:
Doesn't take much skill or knowledge to cobble together a program that is mere conjecture and not spend minimal time researching the subject. The devs obviously were not well educated or they would have taken at least one entry level physics course which would have given them a rudimentary understanding of the forces and how they affect objects. Big ships have all that weight (especially when fully loaded) and are very sluggish in changing direction. The only force providing that redirection of force is the rudder, sails are not that effective. Water must be moving over the surface of the rudder to create the force on the rear of a ship that will, eventually move the rear in that direction, and the bigger the rudder the more force is generated. If no water or so little water as is moving past at 1-2 knots no force that will move the rated tonnage will provide the force to make the rear move, which is what directs the forward momentum and movement of the ship.

Try paddling a canoe to see what I am describing. Load that canoe with as many rocks as you can and see just how easy it is to move that canoe or change direction.

Putting irrational tricks into the game is a cheat and not worthy of the Sid Meier branding. If this were Pirate Mario, or Pirate Frogger...then it would be expected and enjoyed by those who have played those games.

Putting more gators in the river or speeding up the game is not the same as increasing the skill or presenting a more complex scenario. The sword fighting is Mario antics, not anything resembling actual skills... watch the Olympic Fencing Event to get an idea of what it should really be like.

I suppose my understanding of all this is what ruins the simplicity of this game, and my unreasonable expectation that the Sid Meier game I knew and enjoyed so much I became obsessed with it. I just expected a professional product free of bugs and not crashing randomly. When I go to quit the game about half the time the system hangs... blank screen which goes on forever until I unplug and do a cold reboot. Not since Win95 have I had to do this.

Thanks for reading, I just needed to vent all the frustration and explain what I would like for this game to provide. I am hoping that the gamers out there who are knowledgeable and making necessary changes can address more of these stupid dev presentations. Would any of the IT pros out there have been satisfied with the quality of this buggy product? Would you be proud of the accomplishment and brag about how you were responsible for this game?

I doubt it, but if I am wrong, tell me so and why.

Keep the keel in the water.

This game takes place in my favorite historical period and I am a big history buff. I know a lot about the period too and I love SMP. The level of realism you want can be found, but such games take a lot longer to play and are harder to master. From what I understand; SMP was supposed to be simple and invoke a "cinematic" feel, making your character an over-the-top, larger-than-life, Errol Flynn type swashbuckler fighting enemies that were just as over-the-top and larger-than-life as he is. That is what I remember reading and the game delivers in a fantastic way that is still much played and loved for over 15 years (the version we are all most familiar with anyway). I used to play "Privateer's Bounty", that game was more what you are saying you want but I did not like that game as much as SMP, too much work for too little reward. To each his own though, maybe you would like a game like that.
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Pirate
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the Captain. it's a great game that is very playable. Everything has it's flaws even me and you but if your going to enjoy this game then your realism has to come down. it's not real but sometimes I wish that barmaid and daughter I just modded was Smile
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ronnraymore
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 3:15 pm    Post subject: Sure Reply with quote

Great to play if you don't expect minimal behavior of ships that mimic real world characteristics...simply taking out the "twist" value would stop this ridiculousness Redoing the points of sailing to be consistent with both the readme description and reality would vastly improve the fun of the game. Pirates used fast ships in order to out maneuver their prize or the hunter. Drake destroyed the Armada in part due to his fast Corvettes ( however, most of the damage was done by fireships floated into the anchored Galleons), also in large part due to the fleet being commanded by an Army General, not a naval officer. Spain was a land power with the strongest army of the time. If the troop ships had been able to make it onshore we would be speaking Spanish, and a state of Mexico.

Sid's stated goal for this game was to create a more realistic environment with more sailing features than he was able to create using sprites and relying on narrative to create the story. While his plan to include using a sextant and taking sun angles in order to find your position was a bit of over-reach, his concept was to use the newly available 3D and motion features to create a world that closely mimicked what existed during that era. This version doesn't come close and is insulting, but if you enjoy the Mario features, go ahead and have fun, that is the essence of gaming.

The mariner life was very hard work, which is why most did all they could to avoid or escape the "Press Gangs". Life at sea was horrible and sadistic captains and ships officers made life miserable and short. A good game would not be easy, but would provide the elements to advance and gain the riches of a lord, if you have the talent and daring.
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Pirate
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not trying to be rude or anything. No way not me Smile but if I saw so many things that I hated so much about the game then I would simply toss it to the side and find something else to do.
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Captain Teague
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pirate wrote:
Not trying to be rude or anything. No way not me Smile but if I saw so many things that I hated so much about the game then I would simply toss it to the side and find something else to do.

Exactly. I have been wanting to post that too; but I have been trying to find a good sailing sim to recommend in Pirates!'s place. Not sure there is one that meets his desires, but for what he says he wants I am sure better options than Pirates! exist.
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Pirate
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

About the only other pirate game I play is Seadogs. It's and oldie now too but I like the ships and combat experience that comes with the game. It's moddable too. It can still be found on places like Amazon.com. It's not the carribean though but instead it's in a fictional setting. Maybe joining a pirate reinactment group where you dress up like a pirate and drink rum might be realistic enough for some of the more picky folks.
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