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Making textures for "rankpc" models
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Sir W. Raleigh
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pirate wrote:
When it comes to nifs Parksbanyon knows alot more then I do. In fact I know almost nothing nor have I pretended to. I have worked with animations a little as in that beta girls mod if you only use the bd nif then it won't work right. It has to have the bd animationons as well so the easiest way to do that is renaming the kfm files and so making it unnecessary to rename tons of kfs. Sorry if I sounded frustrated in my last response. I can assure you I wasn't and I guess I just didn't know what else I could say since I know nothing about making nifs. My opinion and its only that is these animations kind of like pull and tug on these nifs and these original nifs are designed for that certain tug and pull that gives them movement so to speak. Swapping nifs and you did that with the cog and the results of those movements and the bones or whatever the heck makes the nif capable of moving wont match up leaving less then dis arable results. You may could move them bones in a way that makes the nif and kfs jive together but it would almost seem to me like that would be distorting the nif in another way. Anyway rest assure I believe in you in being a good modder with a better education then mine and I tend to speak up because I'm just geared that way I suppose. Keep up the good work.


Thanks Pirate, I will keep doing what I can.
To your point wrt the CoG, it took awhile but I finally got a situation for the "no battle" town attack where you go straight to duel (i.e. due to overwhelming force). In that scene the pc_cog, which you'll recall was made with vanilla pc.nif, does not have a pistol.
Mad
So yeah, still got bugs to work out and those undoubtedly have to to with anims. Let's not go giving me a swelled head tho, it's still likely all this will amount to nothing just as it did ten years ago. Of all the hobbies to take up ...

Surprised
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parksbanyon
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:35 pm    Post subject: honesty Reply with quote

2 B honest I was hoping u 2 were working on the kf, kfm's. Last I remember mandiuscreel was heading off on that last time he was on the board. I spent the last 3 days in combat with a mouse Mad and finally emerged victorious Smile . During that time I spent a few moments tweaking Sea Vixen 3 (nicks org, Sir W texture, I got rid of the pistols, sword in hand, rotated the sword in sash, and corrected the sash normals. Fell into a conundrum at this point as nick had renamed/reorganized the bones. Confused Is that doable? Being I have to use the nifskope-3dsmax-nifskope formula to make the models work in game I noticed the hierarchy was radically different than the vanilla, can anyone tell me is there a specific reason for that.
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parksbanyon
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:44 pm    Post subject: BTW Reply with quote

In theory when you load a modded nif the kf will drive the bone nodes to there correct position. If the mesh is skinned rite it should work ok if the swapped skeletons are same or VERY similar. In my case cause of the 3ds max to nifskope overlaid on the original skeleton I have to "massage" the skin.
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Sir W. Raleigh
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:17 am    Post subject: Re: honesty Reply with quote

parksbanyon wrote:
2 B honest I was hoping u 2 were working on the kf, kfm's. Last I remember mandiuscreel was heading off on that last time he was on the board. I spent the last 3 days in combat with a mouse Mad and finally emerged victorious Smile . During that time I spent a few moments tweaking Sea Vixen 3 (nicks org, Sir W texture, I got rid of the pistols, sword in hand, rotated the sword in sash, and corrected the sash normals. Fell into a conundrum at this point as nick had renamed/reorganized the bones. Confused Is that doable? Being I have to use the nifskope-3dsmax-nifskope formula to make the models work in game I noticed the hierarchy was radically different than the vanilla, can anyone tell me is there a specific reason for that.


Not to worry, I'll be tackling those pesky anims eventually, I feel it best to iron out some of the skeleton issues first though. (That and taking a break from the "hard stuff", doing some more basic work).

In theory, it shouldn't matter what order the bones are in, so long as Bip01 is the "root parent" for all others ... as far as I understand things that is. I had a look at the SV vs original and I don't actually see any difference in the bone order. The various bones of the SV are on different node numbers from the original, however this shouldn't matter.
SV also "loses" 3 nodes right off the bat, which will naturally change which nodes the bones now fall under. As far as I can tell though, all of the actual skeleton bones are in same order as the original (i.e. same parent/child relationships throughout).

Of course, if the bones aren't the same as an original model, the anims for that original model would likely produce very odd results. And I should think that the names would need to be the same for similar bones, because as you state the bone names are what the kf references.

I wonder though, if you're aware that Nifskope doesn't always show things in the correct order (i.e. hierarchy is not preserved in display, though it is in data). You can do a "Reorder Blocks" to get a more useful display for examination, but apparently that actually changes things in the data rendering the model nonfunctional in game (or maybe I just screwed things up).
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parksbanyon
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sir W: "I wonder though, if you're aware that Nifskope doesn't always show things in the correct order"

Very Happy Thanks for the info. Gonna try to open the barmaid skeleton and the SV3 in 3ds and position her as correctly as possible and then "massage" the weighting to correct errors. 1 thing I noticed is the barmaid frame (shorter spelling than skeleton) is smaller than the pc frame of the SV.
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parksbanyon
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:48 am    Post subject: problems Reply with quote

Haven't done this in awhile. Anyone want to figure out what simple thing I missed SVBM1 (Sea Vixen barmaid version 1) isn't appearing in game. Know its a simple error She's on my dropbox as a zip
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Sir W. Raleigh
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: problems Reply with quote

parksbanyon wrote:
Haven't done this in awhile. Anyone want to figure out what simple thing I missed SVBM1 (Sea Vixen barmaid version 1) isn't appearing in game. Know its a simple error She's on my dropbox as a zip


Oooh ... dam ... I've had this happen ("ghost" mesh), and I made a note somewhere ... but curse my sloppy bookkeeping I can't find it now.

If it's same thing I did, you are right that it is a simple error, and easily fixed. I just can't recall atm what it was.
Sad

I'll have a look at it as I find time today and hopefully the solution will return to memory.
From a first look though, it seems like you've got everything properly sorted otherwise and she's looking good!
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parksbanyon
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:04 pm    Post subject: so u see her too Reply with quote

OK so the rar works. did u use nifskope, game, or blender to view her? Obviously not the game.
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Sir W. Raleigh
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:33 pm    Post subject: Re: so u see her too Reply with quote

parksbanyon wrote:
OK so the rar works. did u use nifskope, game, or blender to view her? Obviously not the game.


Actually all three. Smile
I'm really stumped still ... she looks fine in Nifskope and Blender, but as you said, is invisible in game. Shadow seems to be visible, but not main mesh.

I did find my experiment from a week ago, but unfortunately I don't think it will directly help you in this case. (As you've probably noted, the pc and barmaid nifs have slight differences in first nodes. Your modded one has what seems to be the right order for the barmaid though, so that's probably not the problem).

I'm still not sure exactly what I did wrong here (still looking for the notes), but as you'll see in this screenshot I somehow lost some "extra data", and I had to go back into Blender to fix why that happened. (working nif on left, the one that was a "ghost" in game on right).
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ur4xulo1dyjnoh0/pc-pc_comp.jpg?dl=0

Unfortunately, the barmaid nif has no extra data, so that can't be the issue here. However, that extra data did have something to do with how the "materials" are linked to the mesh, iirc, so maybe you'll have to splice it in there somehow.
Sorry I couldn't be more help, would really like to get this thing to work!
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Sir W. Raleigh
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay Parks, I found my "lab notes" and found that I'd "stripified" the geometry on my "ghost" ... which is clearly not what you've done here.

However, looking at that nif vs yours gave me another idea, so I loaded your nif back into Blender and re-exported as v4.0.0.2 (yours was 10.1.0.0). That seems to have worked. I'd be hard-pressed at this point to explain why that worked, but it seems to have fixed the main problem.
However ... there's no sword ... she's supposed to be packin' a sword, no? Ofc, maybe she only has that in duel scene? Would make sense ...
At any rate, she looks great, good job!

Here's a few screens (SVBM1_1-4)

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9tlbi5g2cvjvxam/AADlUo2jz3drwNXLyiE9AjI7a?dl=0

Re something you mentioned several posts ago;
Quote:
Gonna try to open the barmaid skeleton and the SV3 in 3ds and position her as correctly as possible and then "massage" the weighting to correct errors. 1 thing I noticed is the barmaid frame (shorter spelling than skeleton) is smaller than the pc frame of the SV.


A question I still have is whether, in a case such as this, it is best to scale the frame or the mesh? Would scaling the frame mess up the animation? How have you managed that on this mod?

Also ... how can I parse these links so they don't wrap around and screw up the entire thread format. Evil or Very Mad
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Pirate
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of your screens appear to be linked to a folder rather then individually.
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Sir W. Raleigh
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pirate wrote:
Most of your screens appear to be linked to a folder rather then individually.


Yes, but are you not able to access the photos from the folder? Forgive me if I've screwed this up, I only started using Dropbox a couple weeks back. My intent is to link to the folder, with reference to particular photos to be found within.
I thought this would be a more efficient solution from my end, but concede it may be confusing for folks, so maybe I should start putting up individual links, either in place of or in addition to the folder link?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cznajty175lkmh8/SVBM1_3.png?dl=0

... they don't wrap this way either ... I'll put the question to a vote ...
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Pirate
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I've been guilty of doing the same thing before until someone spoke up and I took it folks didn't like wading through all my purty screenies to find the one I wanted to point out so I changed to doing them individually. Anyway if you prefer doing it that way then don't pay no attention to me but I just wanted to give you the idea that individually seems to me the best way to do it. Another thing is i'm not complaining just trying to help so if you like doing it your way then kick me overboard and keep doing it that way.
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Sir W. Raleigh
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, thanks for letting me know what you thought about it. I think I'll start using individual links from here on.
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parksbanyon
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:32 am    Post subject: thanks for the info and help Reply with quote

I could see where a version 4 of gamebyro won't work in a version 10 slot. I'll try that fix.

Remember the kf simply records the vertice positions of the bone joints, so no matter what we do it will place them in the recorded positions at scene start. Until we can figure out how to redo the animations we're stuck with that.
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