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Sid Meier's Pirates - A Speed Run
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corsair91
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:02 pm    Post subject: Sid Meier's Pirates - A Speed Run Reply with quote

Sid Meier's Pirates - A Speed Run

http://www.dos486.com/pirates/

by erik


Last edited by corsair91 on Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:49 pm; edited 2 times in total
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humbe
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Working on the exact same thing.. Trying a few various approaches..

Did it in 6-7 years last full attempt, but wasted several years in the end due to no beautiful daughter close to incan city spawn points, so retrying now. First attempt, I was as you, close to Trinidad, Barbarossa, Martinique, Curacao for promotions hunting pirates. Currently I'm testing out area around Port Royale instead.

Treasure maps seems to very often spawn on the island with Santo Domingo or Santiago, so that has worked out well, and it's shorter trip to get northwest and a lot of indian/pirate bits in reasonable distance.

I'm trying to use Mail Runner as flagship all the way.. Tiresome to bomb Montalban down to very few crew left without getting hammered, but only have to do it a few times so it's manageable. On the upside, I feel like my I'm sailing a lot faster with only a pinnace class ship.

Only time I add another ship (apart from taking to port to sell), is to have some extra crew when taking on Montalban's hideout. I'll see if I can make a better report of current game once completed..


Last edited by humbe on Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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humbe
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you playing with the 1.0.2 patch? Montalban with Rapier without fencing skill sounds impossible. I've got a hard time to get going and win sword fights early in the game without it, and barely manage Montalban with fencing skill and most fencing items, so no navigator for me..

You seem to be invading a lot more cities than me. To me it feels like I lose a tone of favor when doing it, so I try not to, to promote faster and equally everywhere, though travelling takes its toll too. I converted Leogane to Dutch in my current game to get a dutch port up there, and also got my Mail Runner from a french mission, and then I seemed to need 12 favour instead of 6 to get to rank #3, and even the English got hostile when I took Leogane.

Been trying to figure out the perfect start, limiting the number of city visits as each take 7-8 days. Been trying to waste 4 indians/pirates before entering first port, to get promotions immediately, but seems like cities get angry on my fighting pirates too close to ports..
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corsair91
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speed Run is by erik not by me.

1.0.2 patch amongst other things removes securerom and the only way the SM pirates! original Disk CD or DVD versions are playable with Windows 10.


Full 1.02 patch list of changes

https://support.2k.com/hc/en-us/articles/201333793-Downloading-patch-and-what-does-it-change-

Also very useful is

Sashanan Strategy guide Faq
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/915017-sid-meiers-pirates/faqs/34143


Also worth a look is

Hints & Strategies - Fencing forum section
http://www.hookedonpirates.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=14
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humbe
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I take it you're not using 1.0.2 then. Yeah. Most changes are bugs and exploits you may or might not hit or exploit, but for me the real difference was Montalban always using a rapier.

As far as my experience go, with high difficulty and good AI swordmen, they block pretty much everything you throw at them, causing you to lose advantage and AI to get impossible fast. Thus I rely on avoiding/blocking their attacks to counter attack, and that makes an AI with a rapier much worse than an AI with a slower attack. As Montalban is already the hardest swordfight, always letting him have a rapier is a drastic difficulty change.

I upgraded to fix bugs/exploits. Considered going back after failing Montalban fight enough times, but with fencing, most fencing gear and practicing some right before attacking him on land I can manage most times. Then attacking him on sea I bombard him down to single digit crew numbers first to simplify, though that's kind of annoying in itself with a mailrunner Smile

Funny enough, even though you might see night falling and light coming back several times during a long sea fight, I think time is actually standing still. I seem to get back to starting position and starting time no matter what after the fight is over, so bombarding isn't wasting time.

Also, after a few runs, I seem to gather enough money from rewards and enough acres from picking up promotions too late, to get to max wealth, so I think I can do with sinking quite a few enemy ships, rather than than getting slowed down by losing crew in swordfights or getting a damaged ship, causing 8 days of lost time to enter a port to fix.
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Roland
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Overall, Montalban is not as good a fencer as the English Captain of the Guard. But he always has one special attack, and it is nearly impossible to block or dodge that attack. Unfortunately, his special attack varies. The barmaid will tell you what it is, but even when you know what to expect, it is hard to incorporate that knowledge into your tactics. One thing you can always be certain of, however - Montalban's special ability is always offensive, not defensive. So when you have the advantage you should attack with confidence.
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humbe
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finished my current attempt now, a 1680 game, at November 1st, 1683. So a bit less than 4 years in total. According to calculations for fame I found elsewhere, I should have qualified for 24 wealth, but it seems I ended short at 23. I'll see if I can figure out how much more wealth I need to get to 24.

220323 gold after dividing plunder and 5800 acres, which according to my source said 20 gold per acre => 336.323. According to my source 300.000 should be enough for max fame.. I guess calculations are incorrect.



Started in 1680, to see if there might be more activity there which could trigger game to be faster. Don't think there was any. Started as english to try out Port Royale as start location. Exchanged Sloop of War with Mailrunner after around 5 months time. Tried to sail with Mailrunner only most of the time, sinking ships to avoid extra port trips to sell them and slow down movement towards the port.

Also tried to minimize amount of port visits.

Took over Leogane and made it dutch to have all promotions available close. Area seemed good, as all the pirate treasures spawned on islands close to Santiago or Santo Domingo, meaning most map pieces had coastlines, and figuring out locations with one or two map pieces was often possible. Also, if Raymondo spawned in the NW, he'd end up moving past the middle at some point, so avoided long travel, with the exception of travelling around the world once to get the named pirates.

Got all 4 incan cities late by marrying Vera Cruz daughter, and both her and Campeche daughter was beautiful, so could spawn all the incan cities while being close.

(I have reloaded several times to try and find the optimal order of things to try and see how fast is possible. So time is not comparable to people playing a whole game in one flow.)

Some other random observations:

It's hard to fight Montalban, especially when he has more crew than you, but bombarding him down to few crew with a mailrunner is doable with a little tedious training. Time seems to stand still while fighting sea battles, so take your time. Stay at max range to remove his guns while evading his gunfire, before going in close and remove sails and then crew. Take care to not move too close so they surrender before you have cut down crew enough, as there will be a fight nevertheless. To attack Montalban's lair you'd want to have a ship in tow a bit before to enter some ports and get some extra crew, but all the other times, a single mailrunner performs awesome.

A mailrunner is also great to be able to catch war canoes fairly reliable even in the open sea. I don't carry guns at all, apart from when facing Montalban, and that seems to trigger war canoe AI to want to shoot at me instead of just fleeing, giving me opportunity to catch up and take them. There will be no swordfight, and thus I don't lose crew taking them either. Very easy way to get favor towards all nations.

The double promotion for the first two promotions seems like a clear bug. You can do double promotion with only 4 favor on swashbuckler, which is also the minimum to get one promotion. For some reason it didn't work with the English in this game, but it worked there too once I got 5 favor.

Beautiful daughters seems to give out incan city hints after giving ruby rings or fighting suitor too, even though the info I found elsewhere indicated that these should give the lesser reward which in this case should be raymondo info. I guess it might upgrade to better reward once all relatives are free, rather than downgrading to wanted criminal.

Having beautiful daughters in one or more of Campeche/Vera Cruz/Villa Hermosa can really speed up the last part of the game.

I see others talking about war canoe being better than mailrunner due to being smaller in size so easier to dodge bullets, but when I fight war canoes with my mailrunner, they seem to be pretty equal in size as far as I can see... To me it sounds like a big bonus to use mailrunner instead, to get more crew and a bit more carry capability. 12 guns instead of 8 also helps a lot when bombarding Montalban.

Wind direction/strength is sadly not saved with a savegame, creating an easy exploit if you're caught up in bad wind directions.

If doing an escort quest for a nation that is not at war, you will always face pirate privateers, allowing you to use settlements and the like to trigger pirates to get favor with all. Can also get pirates when at war in most cases, but then it seems random. I don't think anyone gets angry if you stay clear of the privateers and just offer up what you're escorting, but you will have wasted time to visit settlement and escorting this far.

Raymondo/Mendoza/Montalban can actually spawn in the city you're already in. If you haven't already talked with bartender you can fight him immediately there if it happens.

While you pay 1000 gold for Raymondo info from mysterious traveller, you don't waste 8 days visiting a jesuit mission. Way worth it if you want to finish fast.

Tracking favor with nations through happy flags in log works awesome. Very nice tip I saw here before playing this game. Sadly, knowing what they get angry for is a lot harder. I've tried to anger cities minimally to avoid getting ill effects of it. For instance, trying to save 8 days of visiting first city when starting game, I've tried to take on pirates/indians first to get 4 favor and promotions on first visit, but they seem to get hostile from fights close to their city (but other cities of same nation further away will accept you still)


Last edited by humbe on Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Salty Dog
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

humble,
Congratulations! That is the best post and finest achievement I have seen in YEARS! We had a contest back in 2004 and the best result was about 5 years. So, I think you beat it! Absolutely amazing! In order to do this, you need:

a small ship - war canoe, mail runner or pinnace. Sink prizes quickly to get promotions and money, do not waste much time.

you need to make Baron quickly and dance a perfect dance with her to spawn Monty early in the game.

I am impressed you found all nine treasurers so fast, guess you incorporated this with chasing Raymondo or Monty.

What skill level did you use? Was it Apprentice?

Which ability did you choose, was it fencing or navigation? I always choose Navigation and use a small boat.

Seriously, this is the best SMP post we have had in a long time! Well done! I will donate 5000 gold to you Sir!!!
Arr!
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humbe
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Very Happy

It was on swashbuckler. Partly to make it challenging, but also getting 50% when dividing the plunder means a swashbuckle finish might be the fastest, if you can manage to find bits with minimal map pieces.

I used fencing skill as I'm not sure I can manage monty at my age without it. Also, not having fencing skill makes for a rough start with a small crew. Don't want to waste lots of time in the beginning having to refill crew too often.

I identified monty's location after 2 map pieces, so monty wasn't really an issue once I got the tactics for bombarding him down to <10 crew. As I was hunting pirates/indians in the middle of the map, I could just wait until he passed by twice, and then I knew where to hit. But Raymondo needs to be prioritized when you have a decent chance closely, as you need to create 4 maps from him. But taking advantage of knowing that his map spawn close to where you first hit him, and not do that fight somewhere with awful locations, you can get many of them with one piece if you're lucky.

I planned every visit to a city / pirate haven and the like, to try and minimize travel distance and have them serve as many different purposes as I could at the same time. I needed 28 town visits to get to max rank with everyone, and those visits also then includes getting all the items I needed from traveller/dances, map pieces for treasures, selling ships/goods, upgrading ship etc.

State at 1st of January 1681:
- Mailrunner flagship with all upgrades but fine-grained powder. 120 crew. HAPPY.
- 4 specialists. Carpenter, Sailmaker, Surgeon & Quartermaster.
- 17937 gold. 11 food, 8 cannons.
- One-shot Pistol, Fencing Shirt, Dutch Rutter, Medical Herbs & Incan Mystic Salve, Ruby Ring, Calfskin Boots
- Colonel (3/Cool for all nations. ~2 favor with spain, none with others.
- 2 pirate treasures found. One map known.
- One relative freed. Raymondo on map and fairly close.
- One map piece of Montalban. With X, but all on land nothing revealing location.
- Captain Kidd taken down. Other named pirates remain.

1st of January 1682:
- Mailrunner flagship with all upgrades but fine-grained powder. 120 crew. HAPPY.
- 7 specialists. All but Cook.
- 71803 gold. 22 food.
- Both Pistols, Both Fencing Shirts, Both Rutter, 3 stringed fiddle, Salve/Herbs, Ring/Necklace, Dancing Boots/Slippers,
- Lacking both swords, Concertina, Vest/Cuirass, Spyglass/Telescope, Glass/Barometer. 5 categories daughers can give away.
- Baron (4/Cool for all nations but spain. Got enough favor for Baron with spain, so get next port entrance very soon.
- 6 pirate treasures found.
- Three relative freed. Raymondo on map far northwest.
- Two map pieces of Montalbans lair. Enough to see where it is.
- Five named pirates taken down. Going all south to get 6th. Rest is in middle, nw part of map. We're 1st pirate at this point.

1st of January 1983:
- Mailrunner flagship with all upgrades but fine-grained powder. 194 crew. UNHAPPY. (Got raymondos boat in tow to attack montalban)
- All specialists.
- 128829 gold. 20 food, 46 goods, 10 cannons. 4550 acres total.
- Both Swords, Both Pistols, Both Fencing Shirts, Both Rutter, Fiddle/Concertina, Salve/Herbs, Ring/Necklace, Dancing Boots/Slippers,
Leather Vest, Quality Spyglass.
- Lacking Cuirass, Telescope, Glass/Barometer, 3 categories daughers can give away. + Some useless ones.
- Marquis (7/Cool for all nations.
- All pirate treasures found.
- All relatives freed.
- Two map pieces of Montalbans lair. Enough to see where it is. Going to attack it.
- All named pirates taken down.
- After taking 4 incan cities and Montalban I should have enough for 24 fame immediately as long as I don't lose cash. (Or so I thought)
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humbe
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh.. And getting to lvl5 takes a bit of time when levelling all nations at the same time. Raymondo more time critical so spawned monty by freeing family ahead of baron. Though regretting a bit passing on the items for meeting daughters without required rank
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Roland
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

humbe wrote:
Tracking favor with nations through happy flags in log works awesome. Very nice tip I saw here before playing this game. Sadly, knowing what they get angry for is a lot harder. I've tried to anger cities minimally to avoid getting ill effects of it. For instance, trying to save 8 days of visiting first city when starting game, I've tried to take on pirates/indians first to get 4 favor and promotions on first visit, but they seem to get hostile from fights close to their city (but other cities of same nation further away will accept you still)

In addition to your favor points with nations, you also earn favor points with individual cities/governors. These are not tracked in the log. As you discovered, engaging in combat too close to the city earns you disfavor - even if you are saving the city from raiders or invaders. You can earn city-specific favor points by romancing the governor's daughter, escorting a new governor to the city, or apprehending a criminal you learned about from the daughter of the city's governor. Probably other things too.
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