Frigates vs. Pinnaces
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Salty Dog
Sailing Master
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 Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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JackPrat - do not use a Brig, instead start off using a Royal Sloop. You can capture one of these from the Spanish when they get mad at you. Also, you can knock off Roc Brassiliano to get his Royal Sloop.
Outfit it with the goodies - Copper Plating, Iron Scantlings, Cotton Sails and Triple Hammocks and you will do well. Play until you get good with this ship. Then make the big plunge to the small boats. It is a big step but well worth it. I played for a fairly long time with the Royal Sloops and then Gun Pierson talked me into using the small boats, especially a war canoe and I am SO GLAD he did! You FLY around the map in your Ferrari! |
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JackPrat
Powder Monkey
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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Salty, I have to admit I started using a Mail Runner and haven't looked back. My fencing game is top notch for Rogue and makes capturing ships a breeze.
I did start looking into Brigs and noticed that their turning radius is shorter than the Frigate although slower in speed. Could be interesting to experiment, but slow boating around the Caribbean makes for a quickly unhappy crew.
As for Sloops, I still seem to get massacred by Raymond every time I go to board him. I don't have the patience to actually sea battle it out in a Sloop vs a suped up Galleon either. I guess I should review what angles it sails best in relation to the wind, but it seems too slow and fragile. Avoiding volleys at close range is tough. Pinnaces seem to be able to board most enemy ships unscathed.
Also, is there any reason to use War Canoes over Mail Runners? Aside from ease of availability I don't see any advantage. |
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Captain Teague
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| JackPrat wrote: | | Also, is there any reason to use War Canoes over Mail Runners? Aside from ease of availability I don't see any advantage. |
Neither do I. I use a War Canoe or Pinnace (depending on what I find first) but upgrade to a Mail Runner ASAP. As far as I can tell they all have the exact same speed and agility, and the larger crew only helps you. Other than ease of access, I see no advantage for the War Canoe over the Mail Runner.
P.S. Well, maybe a smaller hitbox. That is the only other advantage I can think of though.
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Salty Dog
Sailing Master
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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Some people swear the War Canoes are faster, however 10 years ago we had a programmer come on here and say he checked the code and all three of the small boats are the same speed. See for yourself if there is any difference. I have hit 20 knots in a War Canoe but only 19 knots in the other boats but that may have been a coincidence. |
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Roland
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:47 am Post subject: |
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Having used them both extensively, I think the war canoe is a little bit faster and a lot more agile than a mail runner. A fully upgraded war canoe will turn on a dime if there is a decent breeze.
The main advantage of a mail runner is the larger crew capacity, which I like for boarding. If you are using a war canoe - especially without triple hammocks - you not only need to fence well, you need to win your swordfights quickly. |
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Red Rabbit
Cutthroat
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Teague wrote: | | Personally, I use a pinnace/mail runner as the flag when I am sailing (to get the maximum fleet speed) and use either a sloop, brig, or frigate as my warship. Since you loose the same amount of speed when carrying one or two extra ships, I will often grab either a merchantman or East Indiaman to carry cargo, negating the need to drag along those damaged enemy merchant ships. |
Yes. I do the same and always use Pinnace class ship as a flagship but usually have a bigger second ship in my fleet. She can be Royal Sloop, Brig of War (very good choice for the warship and this is what I ment for my first post), Frigate, Large Frigate or Ship of the Line ("SotL"), which I tend to replace with the bigger/better one when I capture one in that order, leading with the ultimate prize - SotL. Same with the flagship - Mail Runner being the final goal.
Of course if I already have upgraded my War Canoe or a second ship Royal Sloop/BoW to the max, I can skip next ship class which to switch and wait till I encounter more better objective.
For a third ship for the cargo, the Treasure Galleon is also a great option because of her large cargo space (140 tons; only the East Indiaman has the same). But often these tend to be (Spanish) Trade Galleons (120 tons) because of their popularity.
| JackPrat wrote: | | As for Sloops, I still seem to get massacred by Raymond every time I go to board him. I don't have the patience to actually sea battle it out in a Sloop vs a suped up Galleon either. I guess I should review what angles it sails best in relation to the wind, but it seems too slow and fragile. Avoiding volleys at close range is tough. Pinnaces seem to be able to board most enemy ships unscathed. |
Patience can be a good thing to have but understand your point. I was the same when first was sceptical about the Pinnaces: the sea battles would take a long time because of the lack of cannons. But now when I've been using a War Canoe to battle some of the bigger ships, it has taken so long sometimes (especially against Monty, because after destroying the sails, it's also recommended to grape shot the crew number to 1, so when fencing only need to hit him once to win) that when the ships collide and boarding it's already night-time, the sky is dark and can see the stars..
EDIT:
But yeah, if using only one ship (flagship) then it's any of the Pinnace class, because of the speed. Mail Runner preferably because she's the biggest of them, evading broadsides is easy as with the War Canoe and her speed is the same. Just avoid storms and you don't ever need to repair her and you can replenish crew by picking up men that go overboard in sea battles (so you don't need to visit ports to do that and at this you save time; if only could get map pieces by plundering ships).
Sloops work fine before capturing Pinnace but aren't so fast. Frigates are just too big so sooner or later you're going to get some damage that needs repairing (so much damage that Sailmaker and Carpenter specialists can't fix it enough). Of course you can always switch to intact one but are you going to find one and does she have the upgrades (that's what I do at the start of the game with the Sloops before finding Pinnace).
Many times I've been cruising around the Caribbean a couple of years in a row before visiting any ports. Only have to visit ports so can get new map pieces, promotions and romancing the daughters. And then try to find a city where can sneak in so don't waste whole week in there. |
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JackPrat
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you all for the great comments on the war canoe. I will have to try it out for the maneuverability alone. Reduced crew shouldn't be much of an issue. I am getting much faster at closing fencing matches now due to my badass tactical fencing keymap.
Red Rabbit, are you saying that you still hit Monty's Galleon down to one crew in a war canoe?? That is torture! Fighting him on his ship is nowhere near as hard as fighting him in his fortress. Is the difference in crew size dramatic enough to necessitate a preemptive sea battle? I am still on Rogue, so there may be a big difference.
Thanks for reminding me about scooping up crew outa the water. I think I read somewhere that you keep about half of them for your crew post battle. I never considered doing that in a SOL, but Pinnaces would make great lifeguard boats! A booty Galleon would be a great addition to a Pinnace raiding ship. I'll remember that next time I start going for floating prizes.
Also, sneaking into towns does away with the week long penalty for docking?? Finally!! A reason for me to sneak in somewheres. Yarrrr |
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Red Rabbit
Cutthroat
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| Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| JackPrat wrote: | | Red Rabbit, are you saying that you still hit Monty's Galleon down to one crew in a war canoe?? That is torture! Fighting him on his ship is nowhere near as hard as fighting him in his fortress. Is the difference in crew size dramatic enough to necessitate a preemptive sea battle? I am still on Rogue, so there may be a big difference. |
Not quite sure what you mean; English isn't my native language; sorry.
Well, when I counter Monty at sea, very often I bombard first his sails down, and then get closer and use Grape Shots to drop his crew size till there's only 1 left. It's not possible to sink his ship, even if his ship gets 100% sail and hull damage, it just stays as a smoking carcass.
And then when boarding and fencing Monty, he only has 1 crew member therefore no "Advantage" (that meter at the bottom of the screen when dueling). So you only need to hit him once to win.
When using a War Canoe it's easy to evade incoming cannon fire and take no damage. So when boarding it's Monty alone vs. yours 50 men plus whatever have picked up during the sea battle.
That is an excellent tactic but only if doesn't want to keep his fully-upgraded Flag Galleon.
Also I'm sure this works on every difficulty.
| JackPrat wrote: | | Thanks for reminding me about scooping up crew outa the water. I think I read somewhere that you keep about half of them for your crew post battle. I never considered doing that in a SOL, but Pinnaces would make great lifeguard boats! |
Yes, you can keep the half of the men you have picked and some more if have a Surgeon specialist.
| JackPrat wrote: | | Also, sneaking into towns does away with the week long penalty for docking?? Finally!! A reason for me to sneak in somewheres. Yarrrr |
Yes. Sneaking only takes a day but you can only sneak into the Governor's mansion or the tavern. And can't recruit more crew from the tavern then.
Also bigger the garrison of the city, more guards are going to be in the streets when sneaking. But you can go over the walls and hide behind the haystacks that you find in the streets, and also knock out guards if you manage to sneak on to them from behind. |
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Roland
Helmsman
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| Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| Red Rabbit wrote: | | Yes, you can keep the half of the men you have picked and some more if have a Surgeon specialist. |
I think that's backwards. Without the Surgeon, you keep all the men you pick up. With the Surgeon, you only keep half.
The function of the Surgeon is to return half your wounded crew members to service after a battle. In other words, he reduces your casualties by half. But the way it is programmed, he reduces your crew gains by half, as well as your losses. |
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Captain Teague
Rigger
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Roland wrote: | | Red Rabbit wrote: | | Yes, you can keep the half of the men you have picked and some more if have a Surgeon specialist. |
I think that's backwards. Without the Surgeon, you keep all the men you pick up. With the Surgeon, you only keep half.
The function of the Surgeon is to return half your wounded crew members to service after a battle. In other words, he reduces your casualties by half. But the way it is programmed, he reduces your crew gains by half, as well as your losses. |
I noticed that. It halves ANY change in your crew number. 90% of the time, that number is losses. Sometimes though, that is gains. Then it becomes annoying.
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Mr. Blue
Rigger
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| Roland wrote: |
There also used to be a Dancing School, but I can't find it now. |
Click the guide tab and then look at the entry below the fencing academy.
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Rusty Edge
Rigger
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Teague wrote: | | Roland wrote: | | Red Rabbit wrote: | | Yes, you can keep the half of the men you have picked and some more if have a Surgeon specialist. |
I think that's backwards. Without the Surgeon, you keep all the men you pick up. With the Surgeon, you only keep half.
The function of the Surgeon is to return half your wounded crew members to service after a battle. In other words, he reduces your casualties by half. But the way it is programmed, he reduces your crew gains by half, as well as your losses. |
I noticed that. It halves ANY change in your crew number. 90% of the time, that number is losses. Sometimes though, that is gains. Then it becomes annoying. |
Our surgeon lets the blood of all of his patients who haven't lost any to promote general health and well being, just like they taught him at college. |
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Roland
Helmsman
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| Rusty Edge wrote: | | Our surgeon lets the blood of all of his patients who haven't lost any to promote general health and well being, just like they taught him at college. |
Does he use leeches? |
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Rusty Edge
Rigger
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Roland wrote: | | Rusty Edge wrote: | | Our surgeon lets the blood of all of his patients who haven't lost any to promote general health and well being, just like they taught him at college. |
Does he use leeches? |
When available.
Mostly he's concerned with scurvy on long voyages. Since the latest science indicates that it's an imbalance in the humors ( blood gasses ), he prescribes beer as a restorative. It only stands to reason, says he. Sailors ashore spend most of their time in taverns drinking beer, and they never get scurvy. The crew has doubts about the efficacy of his treatment, but they refuse to complain  |
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Roland
Helmsman
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:31 am Post subject: |
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If they drink their beer in the traditional Mexican manner, that might just work.
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