Copy protection ideas
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
bryce777
Gunner
Posts: 632
652 Gold -
|
 Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:43 pm Post subject: Copy protection ideas |
 |
|
You know, I really dislike how the cd key is in the MANUAL instead of on the case. I can never find any of my manuals - it is hard enough to keep track of my actual cds or I suppose in this case dvd. Five years from now after my 223rd installation of windows 2000 I am quite sure I am going to feel keelhauled when I realize I no longer have my manual.
Surely there has got to be a better way. I am not so convinced how much good this kind of copy protection does anyhow.
Something like the steam system is really bad because then you HAVE to have an internet connection.
Are there any better techniques out there? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
dragoniv
Powder Monkey
Posts: 43
84 Gold -
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sure there is. People could develop a sense of responsibility and stop copying games.
Copy protection blows. It's a pathetic attempt by companies to restrict piracy. Take it from a reformed pirate--I have yet to see any copy protection that actually did the job. If you want to copy it bad enough, you find a way. That doesn't make it right, though.
Software is a product. If you can afford it, BUY it. If you can't....find a cheaper hobby. There is no honor in piracy.
In the meantime, bryce777...if you have proof of purchase of the game, you can go back to atari and request a new code. If not, there are illicit ways around this, but you probably already knew that. If you already bought it, nobody is going to pummel you to break into your own copy of the software. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bryce777
Gunner
Posts: 632
652 Gold -
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I just wish I had some realistic statistics on piracy. I guess my gripe is that people can download cracks, and yet the people who actually buy the game have to put up with wonky pirate protections chemes, some of which ruin your windows installation and force you to reinstall from scratch.
Anyway, I am sure there are some better options out there that could be found. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rupertlittlebear
Helmsman
Posts: 4545
10381 Gold -
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:17 pm Post subject: Re: Copy protection ideas |
|
|
| bryce777 wrote: | You know, I really dislike how the cd key is in the MANUAL instead of on the case. I can never find any of my manuals - it is hard enough to keep track of my actual cds or I suppose in this case dvd. Five years from now after my 223rd installation of windows 2000 I am quite sure I am going to feel keelhauled when I realize I no longer have my manual.
Surely there has got to be a better way. I am not so convinced how much good this kind of copy protection does anyhow.
Something like the steam system is really bad because then you HAVE to have an internet connection.
Are there any better techniques out there? |
Take a Sharpie and write the number on the back of your cd case/sleeve. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Black Dog
Powder Monkey
Posts: 7
44 Gold -
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:30 pm Post subject: Re: Copy protection ideas |
|
|
| bryce777 wrote: | | You know, I really dislike how the cd key is in the MANUAL instead of on the case. |
It took me ages to find it. At the on screen instructions tell you it is on "the cd packaging". Since when is a Manual cd-packaging 
| bryce777 wrote: | | Surely there has got to be a better way. I am not so convinced how much good this kind of copy protection does anyhow. |
Well, having a serial number/cdkey provides only minimal protection, this kind of information is really easy to find. I suppose it is better than nothing. Printing it on the manual is dumb. The first thing I did was make a sticker with the number and put it on the actual cd packaging. Manuals get lost, always.
I resent having to have the cd in the drive, especially since it insists I put it in the DVD burner (D:\) and not the usless cd drive (E:\). No-cd cracks are easy find too, so what's the point of that? Unfortunately I broke my install somehow, I haven't figured out how yet, and now it will only start from the "Play" link on the cd-autorun. So I better not lose the cd either.
| bryce777 wrote: | Something like the steam system is really bad because then you HAVE to have an internet connection.
Are there any better techniques out there? |
Like dragoniv said, more honest people. 
Stella |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gandalf
Swabbie
Posts: 119
355 Gold -
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bryce777 wrote: | I just wish I had some realistic statistics on piracy. I guess my gripe is that people can download cracks, and yet the people who actually buy the game have to put up with wonky pirate protections chemes, some of which ruin your windows installation and force you to reinstall from scratch.
Anyway, I am sure there are some better options out there that could be found. |
The simple solution is then to buy the game and then use the crack. Software companies get paid, and you are not inconvenienced. The software companies might frown on the cracking; but hey if you paid for it you should not be inconvenienced by it.
_________________
Gandalf the White
Wizard-Pirate of the Western Seas
Large Frigate: The Glamdring II |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
headrock
Rigger
Posts: 1567
354 Gold -
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
Well, I'm from Israel, where the vast majority of the population gets games in some illicit way or another. It's been like that ever since games came out, and is so deeply rooted into the software culture here that I myself, a long time gamer, who knows and has spoken with many game designers over the years, still can't actually FEEL wrong about copying games from my friends - I've been pretty much conditioned otherwise way before I could make an educated decision about it. However, I have to say that whenever I speak with gamers from all around the world, the vast majority seems to believe in purchase rather than piracy, even though they are aware of the possibilities presented. And lo-and-behold, the gaming industry has been so strong over the past decades that piracy seems to affect it very little if at all. For this reason I believe the various "cracks", protection removal, and game-copy sites are useful for the purpose of eliminating the need to struggle with faulty products, damage, and loss. There are more (or, at the least, ENOUGH) people around that actually buy games to keep the industry strong, and piracy will never stop. Now in the days of the Internet I do believe the game companies should simply put an end to the fight, and invest their money into design and development rather than on this silly, outdated, and basically useless gesture of protecting games. There are few games I haven't seen cracked at some point or another, have you? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dragoniv
Powder Monkey
Posts: 43
84 Gold -
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
Piracy is a huge economical issue for game companies--they wouldn't spend so much money on copy protection otherwise.
In fact, it's a big reason why there are so few small game companies around today--piracy makes the margins too thin. Oh, and by the way--did you ever notice how much the big game companies court the consoles? Want to know why? The latest generation consoles make game duplication far harder than it is for the PC...so they make much more money in that sector. (Not to mention, there is no tech support required for consoles.)
It's an even bigger issue for non-game companies--non-game titles are ripped off far more often and in much greater numbers. Look at how crazy Microsoft has gotten with their copy protection.
And we all know how well theirs works.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
natronix
Powder Monkey
Posts: 20
1052 Gold -
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:33 am Post subject: it could be worse |
|
|
The worst copy-protection out there is the Steam junk that one needs running to play Half-Life2. At work we have software that requires license servers, Flex licensing etc so we can only so many concurrent instances of a particular program. This makes it that if I want to run these programs from home, I have to be logged in to the work main license server. So that's why my company pays for my cable modem at home... The fact that Steam checks in all the time when I play just a home version of the game is really an annoyance. This is the ultimate in copy protection though but is close to the violation of privacy issue.
I admit I break the licensing rules a bit too since I buy one copy of the game, but I install it on three of my computers and have younger brothers play usually for multiplayer (when applicable) games. Using draconian licensing like Steam prevents even this kind of household copying... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bryce777
Gunner
Posts: 632
652 Gold -
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Well, I'm from Israel, where the vast majority of the population gets games in some illicit way or another. It's been like that ever since games came out, and is so deeply rooted into the software culture here that I myself, a long time gamer, who knows and has spoken with many game designers over the years, still can't actually FEEL wrong about copying games from my friends - I've been pretty much conditioned otherwise way before I could make an educated decision about it. However, I have to say that whenever I speak with gamers from all around the world, the vast majority seems to believe in purchase rather than piracy, even though they are aware of the possibilities presented. And lo-and-behold, the gaming industry has been so strong over the past decades that piracy seems to affect it very little if at all. For this reason I believe the various "cracks", protection removal, and game-copy sites are useful for the purpose of eliminating the need to struggle with faulty products, damage, and loss. There are more (or, at the least, ENOUGH) people around that actually buy games to keep the industry strong, and piracy will never stop. Now in the days of the Internet I do believe the game companies should simply put an end to the fight, and invest their money into design and development rather than on this silly, outdated, and basically useless gesture of protecting games. There are few games I haven't seen cracked at some point or another, have you? |
Well, I can sympathize with it in places like the czech republic where 50 dollars is a week's pay, but I can't feel any sympathy towards a rich country like israel and I hope that there re some consequences that cause things to change.
You can nab about any game for ten bucks in the bargain bin, and most of them you can snag for 5 dollars or less eventually. Even games I may never play I often pick up if they hit these prices. It is not so bad to wait a year or two - hell it is sometimes a year or two between great games anyhow. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bryce777
Gunner
Posts: 632
652 Gold -
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | bryce777 wrote: | I just wish I had some realistic statistics on piracy. I guess my gripe is that people can download cracks, and yet the people who actually buy the game have to put up with wonky pirate protections chemes, some of which ruin your windows installation and force you to reinstall from scratch.
Anyway, I am sure there are some better options out there that could be found. |
The simple solution is then to buy the game and then use the crack. Software companies get paid, and you are not inconvenienced. The software companies might frown on the cracking; but hey if you paid for it you should not be inconvenienced by it. |
Well, there are problems with cracks too. Patches usually dont work right for instance, and also the games sometimes have sabotage code to make the game less stable or even mess up your windows install.
I guess that i will write iit on the sleeve if I ever remember, but I wish there were a better solution. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tomi
Powder Monkey
Posts: 29
368 Gold -
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | In fact, it's a big reason why there are so few small game companies around today--piracy makes the margins too thin. Oh, and by the way--did you ever notice how much the big game companies court the consoles? Want to know why? The latest generation consoles make game duplication far harder than it is for the PC...so they make much more money in that sector. (Not to mention, there is no tech support required for consoles.) |
I don't think that piracy has anything to do with the lack of few small game companies. What killed a lot of companies was the increase in term of budget. It has become an industry comparable to the cinema because of it's success and the money it can raise.
About the companies going into the console market, it has nothing to do with piracy either. You get the point : creating a game console is less tricky- you only need to test the game on one hardware (not every mainboard chipset/gfx card/drivers version combinaison) because if it works with one ps2, it will work with the other ps2. You don't have to provide patches, everybody uses the same developpment kit. It's just safer.
BTW piracy helps selling a console. It's part of the marketing of sony. The Playstation 1 & 2 were so successfull because games were easy to copy. The pathetic copy protection used are only made to limit the piracy to a supportable level, but they are part of the business. If you want to sell a console, games must be easily copied. It's the same for the Xbox, and it is one of the reason why Nintendo were not that successfull these years, and one of the reason of the failure of Sega (Dreamcast games could be copied, but it was a pain). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Howie
Helmsman
Posts: 4301
45890 Gold -
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: Copy protection ideas |
|
|
| bryce777 wrote: | You know, I really dislike how the cd key is in the MANUAL instead of on the case. I can never find any of my manuals - it is hard enough to keep track of my actual cds or I suppose in this case dvd. Five years from now after my 223rd installation of windows 2000 I am quite sure I am going to feel keelhauled when I realize I no longer have my manual.
Surely there has got to be a better way. I am not so convinced how much good this kind of copy protection does anyhow.
Something like the steam system is really bad because then you HAVE to have an internet connection.
Are there any better techniques out there? |
I agree with you Bryce777. I hate it that the code number is in the manual as I also lose or can't find the manual while I can always find the cd in my hugh stack of disks. There has been much talk about software piracy here. Good talk, don't get me wrong. I didn't read each post closely but my opinion isn't that the majority of piracy comes from normal guys like you and me giving a friend a copy of a game. It comes from countries like China and other far east or other countries anywhere that snub their noses at international law and allow their companies to pump out illegal copies of software, movies, music and other digital stuff. The RIAA has been taking heat because they are going after the 15 year old kid or Grandma on Social Security when they should be going after the major players. Not the little guy. This is a big problem that doesn't have an easy answer...
Good post by the way, Bryce!
_________________
   |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dragoniv
Powder Monkey
Posts: 43
84 Gold -
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Tomi wrote: |
I don't think that piracy has anything to do with the lack of few small game companies. What killed a lot of companies was the increase in term of budget. It has become an industry comparable to the cinema because of it's success and the money it can raise.
About the companies going into the console market, it has nothing to do with piracy either. You get the point : creating a game console is less tricky- you only need to test the game on one hardware (not every mainboard chipset/gfx card/drivers version combinaison) because if it works with one ps2, it will work with the other ps2. You don't have to provide patches, everybody uses the same developpment kit. It's just safer.
BTW piracy helps selling a console. It's part of the marketing of sony. The Playstation 1 & 2 were so successfull because games were easy to copy. The pathetic copy protection used are only made to limit the piracy to a supportable level, but they are part of the business. If you want to sell a console, games must be easily copied. It's the same for the Xbox, and it is one of the reason why Nintendo were not that successfull these years, and one of the reason of the failure of Sega (Dreamcast games could be copied, but it was a pain). |
Sony, Microsoft and Ninetendo are not making the bulk of their money on consoles. The consoles have little margin--they make the majority of the cash on game sales. Driving up console sales by making piracy easy makes absolutely no fiscal sense.
Note also that I didn't mean to say piracy was the dominant reason for moving to consoles--but it was a factor. You may think it's easy to copy games on a console, but it's far easier to pirate PC games. You can even bypass this dreaded Steam client some folks are grumbling about--even it is far from perfect.
You are quite correct on the reason why game companies like consoles--there is only one set of hardware requirements, so most hardware related bugs SHOULD be eliminated. However, patches don't exist simply because there is no way to apply them. How many console games have you played that had bugs? I can think of quite a few across the PS, PS2, Gamecube, and even long before those systems, dating back to the archaic 2600. Anyhow, I digress.
The smaller game companies aren't getting killed by big budget productions. If that were true, why are small movie companies not only surviving, but thriving? It doesn't take a big budget to make a killer title. One need only look at a title like RollerCoaster Tycoon to see what a small developer can do...and still be very successful. However, piracy hurts them far worse than the bigger companies, mostly due to economies of scale.
You can make the argument that piracy is a good thing for manufacturers of software, but it doesn't hold water. Copy protection schemes have gotten more complex and expensive to create over the past 20 years. It makes a strong argument that most companies take piracy to be a significant threat, and are willing to invest a lot of money to make it harder for people to make or use illigitimate copies. You wouldn't take that approach if (in secret) you discovered piracy actually drove up business for your firm, would you? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sashanan
Swabbie
Posts: 107
1172 Gold -
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The original Pirates! game for the Commodore 64 had a fun - if equally ineffective - copy protection built in. The manual had a list of the Treasure Fleet's route and which port it visited during which month in a given year. In the background story of your pirate, as you started a game, you were at some point confronted with a trivia question on which month the Treasure Fleet would be in what port. Which you would then have to look up in the manual.
If you chose the wrong answer, the story would quickly turn against you and instead of becoming the proud captain of your first ship, you'd lose a battle and be put in a small, leaky ship with a small band of supporters. The game would be played on a hidden fifth difficulty level, where every battle was impossibly hard (maybe Swashbuckler as it is in this game was modelled after this?  ). You were given ten injuries right on the spot, making sure that the health of your starting pirate was already quite poor. And just to top it off, all four nations started hostile to you so that you would instantly be jumped by big pirate hunting Frigates and fired upon no matter which port you tried to visit. Basically, your game would be impossible and you'd soon be forced to retire as a beggar.
_________________
"Any fool can defend his or her mistakes; and most fools do." -- Dale Carnegie |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group |
|
