Tactics?
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Trajanus
Powder Monkey
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 Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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I use a lot of the pounding techniques already written, but I have a special one for pirate hunters (and other pirates) that I haven't seen posted, so I'll share.
Whereas against most ships I try to be upwind, against pirates and pirate hunters I try to be downwind. The AI of those ships has a desperate desire to board, so they tend to come straight for you, without really trying to engage. You just keep running from them, turning when your cannons are loaded and chainshotting them until they're too slow to catch you.
Then you finish them off with some roundshot. And yes, I realize that it's pretty impossible to plunder ships like this, but generally I'm only interesting in sinking pirates (non-named) and pirate hunters since they rarely have more than a pittance of gold aboard.
Simple, but effective  |
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headrock
Rigger
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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Actually that's the tactic I use against most ships (Read my post somewhere near the beginning). With an SOL it gets tricky because you never know if your next volley is going to sink them. After a while you develop the touch, and can switch to chain-shot to smack the enemy without sinking. You also need to drag them around slowly as you prepare to board, then jump at them perpendicular to the wind. At higher levels you get shot when you do this, so I do sink the buggers much more often than board. Catching ships isn't the way to do it when you're sailing a big nasty.
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<Spanish Guitar Riff>
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Trajanus
Powder Monkey
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:40 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You also need to drag them around slowly as you prepare to board, then jump at them perpendicular to the wind. |
That's too much work  .
If I actually want to board a ship I make sure I'm upwind, pound them from afar while they wallow in irons and once they've run up the white flag I race down to accept their sword.
Of course, when they try to run, my handy Brig of War can catch 'em while your beastly SOTL would be left far behind *fails to mention that the only reason I'm not sailing one of those is because I haven't found one yet*
Of course. . . it doesn't always work like this, sometimes you meet a ship that means business, and then you spend some time dodging broadsides. And well, when you meet the big evil Spaniard himself, you pretend you're a war canoe!
"Sail faster you dogs, that next broadside will sink us!"  |
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headrock
Rigger
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Trajanus wrote: | | Quote: | | You also need to drag them around slowly as you prepare to board, then jump at them perpendicular to the wind. |
That's too much work . |
I love the work. I live for the work. Ship-to-ship combat is what draws me more than anything to Pirates! .
| Trajanus wrote: | If I actually want to board a ship I make sure I'm upwind, pound them from afar while they wallow in irons and once they've run up the white flag I race down to accept their sword.
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Yes but if you're upwind, most dodgings you're going to do will only get you closer to the enemy ship, which means you take hits, which is a big no-no in ponding technique. You lose cannon = you lose firepower! FIREEEEEPOWWWEEEEERRRRR! *storms and boards*)
Ahem.
Now when you're downwind, you can keep staying just out of their range, and easily dodge anything that comes at you, and yes, I am talking about a big, ungainly Frigate-class. Those babies can turn away from anything if they have speed.
| Trajanus wrote: | | Of course, when they try to run, my handy Brig of War can catch 'em while your beastly SOTL would be left far behind |
If you actually sail a SOL, you never, and that means, never engage a fast enemy when you're downwind, because they can turn and escape upwind where you can't follow at decent speeds. Shelling the enemy is a bad tactic when you're chasing something small (Why the heck chase anything SMALL anyway?  ), you need to start upwind, so that if the enemy tries to escape, you can easily sail faster than they are (This works swell for frigates, since they can clock 17 and 18 knots in a good hurricane  ). Think about it - if a sloop or a pinnace tries to take a SOL, it would HAVE to choose its starting position and wind aspect pretty well if it doesn't want to take 10-15 cannonballs trying to board the enemy. 15 cannonballs is pretty intense - it can put a sloop in very bad condition, possibly even so that the small ship can't outmaneuver the larger one and hence can't board. At this time the SOL can gain some speed and start running circles around a sloop. Ever had this happen to you with frigates?
If a Brig of War can't score a hit on a small enemy in the first exchange, the smaller ship would most likely be able to turn into "Broad Beam Reach" and sail away at ease, since while the brig gets good speeds in all "forward" wind aspects, the smaller craft often have one or two aspects in which they will beat a brig anyday. Both brigs and frigates have to score a hit as soon as possible (with as many cannons as possible, obviously) to be able to chase a smaller vessel upwind. If you start with the right wind, however, you can either close a whole lot of distance to force the enemy to turn and fight (At which point Chain-shot comes into play ), or you sometimes gain enough speed to actually storm and board them! (which doesn't usually happen because the enemy will PREFER to turn and fight )
| Trajanus wrote: | | *fails to mention that the only reason I'm not sailing one of those is because I haven't found one yet* |
Don't worry mate, you'll see one sure enough. In the mean while, I can lend you one, I have 8 of them. Would you prefer the "Sea Cucmber" or the "Jolly Rasta"?
| Trajanus wrote: | Of course. . . it doesn't always work like this, sometimes you meet a ship that means business, and then you spend some time dodging broadsides. And well, when you meet the big evil Spaniard himself, you pretend you're a war canoe!
"Sail faster you dogs, that next broadside will sink us!" |
Illustrates my point. As an accomplished frigate captain, I have to say that the Evil Spaniards are probably my least feared enemy. I can whittle them down to almost nothing without taking a single scratch on the hull. Then if they haven't raised the flag, I can just grapeshot them till 1 remains, then board and subdue him However if for some strange, unexlpained reason I have to catch an enemy sloop, it's a contest that may take some seriously good planning and instinct to win. This is exactly opposite for smaller ships. Think about taking a sloop with a war canoe, and you'll see what I mean.
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Blondebeard: "Madre de Dios! Es el Pollo Diablo!!"
<Spanish Guitar Riff>
Guybrush: "Si! He dejado en libertad los prisioneros, y ahora vengo por TE!"
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PUNiSHER
Seaman
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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I always roundshot the enemy vessel a couple of times, so he will not be able to cause much damage with his cannons.
When he is no longer a threat to my ship, i will use some grape shot ranges to eliminate most of his crew, so it is safe for me to board.
Since I am not too good at fencing, or just in a hurry, I use this tactic...
Tried to demast a ship too many times, ending up with that ship being destroyed...
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headrock
Rigger
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:21 am Post subject: |
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You know if you try to demast it with roundshot, that's probably the best way to destroy it. Your strategy is good except at the very end, switch to Chain-Shot, not Grape-shot! A large frigate has enough cannons to demast a galleon with a volley of those. While grapeshot will only get their people count lower, demasting them means they fully surrender - you don't need to board, you don't need to fight, and you won't get shot anymore (Actually sometimes they keep shooting. THEN I sink them ).
Unless it's one of the Evil Spaniards, in which case you'll have to fight anyway - so switch to Grape-Shot and kill everyone on board except 1 guy. Easy.
_________________
Blondebeard: "Madre de Dios! Es el Pollo Diablo!!"
<Spanish Guitar Riff>
Guybrush: "Si! He dejado en libertad los prisioneros, y ahora vengo por TE!"
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PUNiSHER
Seaman
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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You are true about that...
But I use to have the bad luck, when I do want to board an enemy vessel, without too much resistence, I accidently sink the vessel.
When I try the chain shot to demast the enemy vessel, it spins around, and then explodes... Leaving me empty handed!
Therefore, I always try to destroy most of his cannons and crew, so the risk of having too much resistence is eliminated.
Is there a way to demast a ship, without it being destroyed totally?
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headrock
Rigger
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:18 am Post subject: |
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To be honest, I've never sunk a ship with Chain-shot. What you speak of is pretty damn new to me.
_________________
Blondebeard: "Madre de Dios! Es el Pollo Diablo!!"
<Spanish Guitar Riff>
Guybrush: "Si! He dejado en libertad los prisioneros, y ahora vengo por TE!"
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Dirk Struan
Seaman
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:34 am Post subject: |
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I think you can only sink an enemy vessel with round-shot...... But then, I only use chain shot sparringly. It is such a chore to try to get a ship back to port sans rigging! In any event, I only use chain shot to keep an enemy from escaping and to give pause to an enemy that is bearing down on my from my leeward side in an attempt to board. After all, I dont want the enemy boarding me until I have cut them to ribbons with grapeshot..... Why some of these scalliwags are in such a hurry to die I will never know....
But seriously, if you want an easy boarding, use grapeshot rather than chain shot. The worst grape will do to the hull is scratch the paint..... It has been known to do a number on the sails I'll warrant, but even that is nothing compared to the havoc you'll wreck with chainshot.
So next time you are prepping a ship for boarding remember this simple motto: "Grape! It isnt just for breakfast anymore!"
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Trajanus
Powder Monkey
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Yes but if you're upwind, most dodgings you're going to do will only get you closer to the enemy ship, which means you take hits, which is a big no-no in ponding technique. |
This is true, but copper plating and a Brig of War helps to offset this with quick turning (note that I say offset, not eliminate). Also if you land your broadsides fast enough you can usually have them down to under 10 guns by the time you're so close you cant dodge.
I'll trust your greater experience on the SOLs
But I will say:
| Quote: | | If a Brig of War can't score a hit on a small enemy in the first exchange, the smaller ship would most likely be able to turn into "Broad Beam Reach" and sail away at ease, |
Off the top of my head, the only thing I can think of that I have trouble catching are pinnace-class ships. But I'll watch this more closely from now on, maybe some sloops have been slipping away.
| Quote: | | Would you prefer the "Sea Cucmber" or the "Jolly Rasta"? |
Definetly the Sea Cucumber.
| Quote: | | Illustrates my point. |
Agreed, basically the only reason I attack from upwind is because the few first times I tried from downwind I spent a good five minutes or so beating my way up to the battered prize. When I'm upwind, its an easy and quick sail down. I'll have to look into starting downwind and then pulling around them during combat so I can sail perpendicular to the wind when its all over. My only worry would be: Wouldn't you lose some speed while you're trying to move up into the wind diagonally?
For example (Ignore the underscores, it wouldn't let me use spaces)
__________________________________________________<--- Wind
______________ You ---> || _____________ || <--- target
If you knock the target out as is, you're going to have a long haul up to them. So the other option I believe you're presenting is to sail diagonally either towards the upper or lower right corners (in this diagram), which would eventually bring you in line with your target, allowing an easy reach pattern at the end of the battle. But you'd still be sailing into the wind to a degree, thus your speed, and consequently, ability to dodge broadsides would be reduced, no?
Is there a way around this/am I misunderstanding what you're presenting?
And to Dirk
| Quote: | | After all, I dont want the enemy boarding me until I have cut them to ribbons with grapeshot..... Why some of these scalliwags are in such a hurry to die I will never know... |
Pfft, who said anything about boarding? I'm talking about making them cry to momma and run up the white flag before I even grace their tub of a ship with my presence
PS- Apologies in advance for crappy diagram/longwinded post |
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headrock
Rigger
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Trajanus wrote: | | My only worry would be: Wouldn't you lose some speed while you're trying to move up into the wind diagonally? |
First of all, if you're trying to bring an enemy around into better wind position, you don't sail into the wind at all. While bombarding, you would constantly be turning your nose perpendicular to the wind (since he's upwind, and you have to fire at him ) Then you turn away either to avoid incoming fire or to regain speed lost. By choosing the direction of each turn you make to bombard, you can direct the battle in different wind attitudes.
There are two flaws to this: First of all, if you haven't made your enemy cry for his momma by the time you've got good wind aspects, ship combat can turn a whole lot more complicated, especially if the enemy suddenly tries to run away. Second, wind changes like crazy when you're playing Rogue or Swashbuckler, and leading him off to one side may put YOU in the disadvantage if the wind shifts perpendicular to its original direction.
No worries though, after sinking about 200 ships with just cannon, you get the hang of it anyway.
P.S. with a brig it's something else entirely.
_________________
Blondebeard: "Madre de Dios! Es el Pollo Diablo!!"
<Spanish Guitar Riff>
Guybrush: "Si! He dejado en libertad los prisioneros, y ahora vengo por TE!"
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Trajanus
Powder Monkey
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | No worries though, after sinking about 200 ships with just cannon, you get the hang of it anyway. |
It always comes down to practice .
This conversation has kinda made me wish for a battle replay, one that you can save and then send to other people. That way I could see what you're doing exactly like you do it! Thanks for the suggestions anyway. |
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headrock
Rigger
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Trajanus wrote: |
This conversation has kinda made me wish for a battle replay, one that you can save and then send to other people. That way I could see what you're doing exactly like you do it! |
SWWWEEEEET. I'd like that too. Good idea, mate!
_________________
Blondebeard: "Madre de Dios! Es el Pollo Diablo!!"
<Spanish Guitar Riff>
Guybrush: "Si! He dejado en libertad los prisioneros, y ahora vengo por TE!"
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bryce777
Gunner
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| Dirk Struan wrote: | | bryce777 wrote: | | headrock wrote: | We are the Pirates who say Chu-van!
You must cut down the mightiest tree in the forest with...
A CARGO FLUYT!!! *horror chord* |
oh what days are these that passing pirates may say chu-van to an old lady?
I am roger, the shipwright! |
*strums lute* Bravely brave Sir Francis, Sailed forth from Panama, he was not afraid to die. Brave brave sir Francis! He was not at all afraid to get killed in nast ways brave brave brave brave Sir Francis......he was not in the least bit scared to get shot into a pulp, or to have his hull shot out or his cannons broke, to have his masts a'splintered and his rigging torn away... "Ummm thats enough singing for now lads" |
Dont forget the nostril rapine! |
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