Let's end the War Canoe Speed Myth
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CGM3
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 Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:08 am Post subject: |
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So, there's no truth to the rumor that there's a direct correlation between the size of a pirate's ship and the size of his [CENSORED]? 
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Strange
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| rupertlittlebear wrote: | | Gun Pierson wrote: | @ Drbeast: Nice doc 
So if I understood the test well we can say that it is indeed no longer a myth that the war canoe is the fastest ship, it's simply a fact? |
I agree, Dr Beast did a nice experiment. And his method shows an obvious understanding of the Scientific Method.
Variables nicely contained. Unknowns reduced/eleminated.
Simple and to the point. More interestingly, he did not let his world knowledge (about ships) color his experiment.
Quality shows. |
And I've applied a much greater level of quality to my testing..
Dr. Beast, you say the wind didn't change, but unless you were on Apperntice, to have a steady wind direction, and locked the heading variable, and locked wind speed, you can't guarenntee the wind didn't change. The wind direction changes quite a bit on the higher levels, as well as the wind speed.
Ship Heading is stored as a 1 byte number with values ranging from 0 to 255, 0 being due north and the vaules increasing as you go clockwise.
Until the memory location for Wind Direction is found and anaylzed, the safest assumption is that it operates under just as fine of a detail as Ship heading.
In my most recent test, accidentally posted under 'guest', (Any Moderators, please change that if you'r reading...) I made sure to control for Wind Speed and Heading, very exactly, by locking the vaules. and I controlled for Wind Direction as best as possible by setting the difficulty to Apprentice, where the wind is always due west.
The nature of the Apprentice level tests were top speed, as the enemy can't keep up with you if you're sailing in a Pinnace-Class vessel. as such, I gave the ships time to accelerate to top speed, measured, let it run for a few more seconds, measured again, and repeated that for about 5 vaules under each wind speed setting I tested (I tested two different wind speed values, 10 knot and 5 knot) to ensure that was the top speed I was recording.
I'd love to do this exacting test on Adventurer, but until a way is found to lock wind direction, it IS NOT reliable to measure top speed exactly on any other level.
This is why my earlier test was done on Adventurer. because at that time I didn't have a method for controling for Wind Speed. (see 'Ship Speed and Difficulty Level' for those earlier tests) The results make it pretty obvious that the Game Designers wanted the speeds to be equal for equal ships with equal upgrades on the Adventurer Level. And the best way to get clear results about whether or not a War Canoe is faster than a Pinnace or Mail Runner. is to be sailing as due north as possible (or E, W, or South), with an equally upgraded identical ship/ ship class tailing you. This way, on Adventurer, the inability to control wind direction and speed is best cancelled out. This method was not good for measuring top speed exactly, but it's accurate enough to compare the performanes of ships in the same class to determine if they have the same top speed, without being able to exactly read top speed.
To Sum it Up, my most Recent and Exacting test:
Wind Speed was locked (by a memory editor)
Wind Direction was controled for (By seting difficulty to Appentice)
Ship Heading was locked (by a memory editor)
the values in memory were read.
the ship was given time to accelerate.
speed values were read at least 5 seperate times to ensure top speed was being recorded.
This was done at 2 different wind speed settings for each Pinnace-Class Vessle.
The results indicated identical top speeds for the War Canoe, Pinnace, and Mail Runner.
And to address an earlier assertation, Ship Speed is stored as a 2 Byte number. A 2 byte number can have values from 0 to 65335. The '1366' was an example of a speed value I recorded. which translates to 13.66 knots. This is most definatly correct, because when I recorded it, 14 knots was the displayed speed in the game, and when I recorded different values, the displayed speed changed in accordance.
To sum that up, I've done my tests, and I've done them accuratley. and I've seen others conduct tests, but no evidence of the exacting accuracy I've conducted my most recent test was provided.
But, at this point I'm sure a few aren't convinced, so I'll refer you back to the bit about the optical illiusion in the first post in this thread.
I'm done doing tests, as they've been exact enough to remove all doubt.
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ruf
Seaman
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| Howie wrote: | | The Air Craft Carrier's reported top speed was 40 knots plus! It was our job to escort them. A Carrier is the largest ship in the world and the fastest. |
i was going to use the Aircraft Carrier example myself, but I thought more people would be familiar with the Titanic.
I admit, this has no bearing on the game-- it was just one of those "my 2-cent" things.
Sail-power, steam-power, nuke-power, doesn't matter. If a ship goes too fast, it will push a wave that the ship then has to climb. A rope thrown off the stern may read 18 knots, but the ship will be barely moving laterally, as it is climbing uphill. Kinda like a plane flying against the jet stream: It may be moving slower that the airspeed indicator reads.
hey Howie, when you said the job of a Destroyer was to catch torpedoes, I didn't know whether to laugh or say "oh geez!"
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notyouravgjoe
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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Isn't the wave it must climb only for acceleration? I thought that after you were accerlating long enough, and the proper weight distribution in the boat, that the boat would be "on plane". Maybe it is just my experience of only dealing with little john and flat bottom boats. |
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rupertlittlebear
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| ruf wrote: | | hey Howie, when you said the job of a Destroyer was to catch torpedoes, I didn't know whether to laugh or say "oh geez!" |
I may be wrong here, but thought that the main purpose of a DD in a fleet was to intercept incoming ordinance. "Eat the missles and torpedoes" before somebody more valuable gets hit. |
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ruf
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, that's why I thought "oh geez, what a job!"
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cyberops
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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After i did some time examining the game code the conclusion is that The War Canoe, Pinnace, and Mail Runner have exacty the same Integers therefore officially in the game have the same speed, there are also other ships that share integers and have the same game speeds. Offcourse it doesnt simulate the speed as it should be in real life. But again Strange is right with his first statement, they have the same speed.
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DrBeast
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:28 am Post subject: |
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Hmm...guess you guys were right then. If you were able to dig into the integers to check out your results then you did a better job than me. I based my conclusions on the reading I got at the upper left corner of my screen (for those who wonder, that's where your speed is displayed). I don't have the know-hows to dig deeper, so I had to rely on that reading only. Nice work people, I like this kind of creative interaction 
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Gun Pierson
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:15 am Post subject: |
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Well I have to take my words back then about the war canoe. I'm thinking about starting a career with a canoe and change to pinace in mid game and mail runner in late game or something. To have some diversity.
Nice job guys, this was an interesting discussion. |
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DrBeast
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Indeed! I really enjoyed this, even if I was proved wrong about the top speed issue. Maybe we could get the debate to the matter of acceleration...? Nah. Sometimes this kind of stuff is needles in a haystack. What it boils down to is how much you enjoy the game, right? And the sheer joy of bringing down the largest ship with the smallest one is above and beyond any tests and assays!
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Salty Dog
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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If they are all the same speed I'll switch back to the Pinnace/Mail Runner too. I could have sworn the canoe was faster. Will try the others again now. Good job!
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Strange
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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I went and tested other aspects of ships of the same class, acceleration included. I should be posting it in a day or two, just gotta clean up the text....
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