Ships You May Have Misjudged

[Captain Blood]

Dave,
I don't know that I would say I enjoyed it.
It was a good experiement. It taught me not to use a barque as a flagship, which I knew already but I do like to maintain an open mind.
I think I'd say, "Learned from it" rather than "enjoyed it".

Have you played with a Brig of War yet?
I've got a new game I started over the weekend and I found a BoW after only about a year of game time. I've got her about halfway upgraded now and she's quickly making me the terror of the high seas.
I've called her "Dragon".
I also have a Royal Sloop that I took with her that was nicely upgraded, I'm working on getting the rest for her and I'm using her as my back up ship.
I call her "Dragon Fly".
Between those two ships, I should own the map fairly shortly.
I'm going to lay off the Frigates this time and see how a game goes from beginning to end without setting foot on the deck of a SoTL .
I haven't not had a SoTL in my game for so long, I don't know if I recall how a game will turn out without having one!
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'Vast heaving! Belay there, I say!

[Dave the Knave]

[Captain Blood]

Dave,
The trick to Brig vs. Galleon on Rogue isn't to get the wind gauge, it's to NOT get the wind guage.
That way the galleon has to either sail past you to get away, in which case you snap him up quickly, or sail away from you, in which case you have the advantage because a Brig sails better into the wind than any galleon ever spawned.
It took me a while to figure that one out, but now that I know it I capture just about every type of ship with no trouble.
It's actually easier and faster than using a Frigate or Pinnace to try to catch them fast sailing Galleons with the wind at your back. My fight sequences don't last anywhere near as long this way.
If they sail at you or even on a tangent away from you trying to keep the wind guage and give you the slip, then all you have to do is lower your sails, turn your broadside to them and fill them with grape repeatedly until they are so low on men they can't function. If they sail into the wind to get away from you, they're yours just by being faster on that point of sailing. They're trying so hard to get away, there's no way they're going to turn and try to shoot at you.
It's really quite cool.

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'Vast heaving! Belay there, I say!

[CGM3]

A tactic I've found effective against pirate hunters (and named pirates) is to give them the wind gauge, as they will usually sail straight towards you in combat, especially if they're in a galleon, in order to board. Then you can wait till they close and rake 'em with grapeshot before defeating the enemy captain in melee.
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I only do what the voices in my head tell me to do.

[Perry]

English is not my natural language, therefore I wonder what the "wind gauge" is , that so many people are talking about. What does it mean??

[Captain Blood]

The wind guage is also known as the wether gauge.
Here is the best explanation I've ever seen:

Tactics - Step 1 - The Weather Gage
The weather gage (less commonly weather gauge) is the favorable position of a sailing vessel relative to the wind. This is generally any direction upwind; vessels holding the weather gage are able to turn and move quickly downwind to their choice of new positions.

In Nelson's era the French sought to disable an enemy ship by destroying his means of manoeuver, concentrating their fire on the masts and rigging. This was accomplished by firing a broadside on the upward roll of the ships. The British took the opposite approach, firing on the down roll into the enemy's hull, producing a storm of splinters that killed and maimed the enemy crew. The British tended to chose the weather gauge and the French the lee, so the French guns were pointing high, and the British low, as their ships heeled in the wind.

The first phase of the battle would be a race between to gain the wind. For a ship to "have the weather gage" is to say that one ship or a line of ships are windward of another ship or line of ships. To be windward means that side from which the wind comes. If one ship is windward of another one, shy it is "upwind" of it. Holding the weather gage means being upwind from the enemy. The outcome of many battles during the age of sail was decided by the ability of one captain to hold the weather gage.

A ship sought weather gage of its enemy, so that it had freedom of maneuver, and could close if it wished. Approaching a ship from windward, which is tacking up into the wind, has the advantage of speed and maneuverability. He will probably reverse course and run. The leeward enemy, if unwilling to fight, could sail downwind away from the pending fight. Thus, the weather gage did not give unilateral control over the time of the battle.

The French fleet lay in Lynn Haven Bay, just within the Chesapeake, near Cape Henry, on the morning of 05 September 1781. At sunrise the British fleet was seen off Cape Charles. At first Count De Grasse supposed it to be the squadron of De Barras, but being soon undeceived, he prepared for battle. The wind was fair, and the British fleet sailed directly within the Capes for the purpose of attacking the French. De Grasse slipped his cables, and put to sea, desiring more room for conflict than the waters of the Chesapeake afforded. Admiral Graves bore down upon De Grasse, and both fleets, in attempting to gain the weather gage, slowly moved eastward, clear of the Capes, upon the broad Atlantic. At four o’clock in the afternoon, a partial action commenced between the van and part of the center of the two fleets, and continued until sunset. Several ships were considerably damaged, but neither commander could claim a victory. Admiral Graves preserved the weather gage during the night, and intended to have renewed the battle on the following morning; but, having ascertained that several ships of the van division, under Admiral Drake, could not safely be brought into action again without being repaired, he deferred an attack. For five successive days the hostile fleets were in sight of each other, sometimes approaching quite near, but neither party seemed desirous of renewing the contest.

Sailors defined four basic points of sail: running, reaching, beating (also known as "close hauled") and "in irons". When the wind is coming from astern, the ship is said to be "Running before the wind." Running is not the optimum point of sail -- it is fast, but can be tricky. When the wind is along the sides, the ship is "Reaching". When the ship is moving downwind, but also across it, the ship is on a broad reach. When the the wind is coming directly across the beam, the ship is on a beam reach. When the ship is heading upwind, it is on a close reach. The reaches are the fastest points of sail, and the close reach is the fastest of the three. A ship is beating when it is as close to the wind as it can get, beating their ways against it. This point of sail is also known as close hauled, due to the sails being hauled in tightly to perform this maneuver. Sailors commonly refer to beating as being "on the wind, while reaching and running are "off the wind".

The fourth point of sail is "in irons" [or "in stays"]. To be "in stays" is to lie with the head to the wind, and the sails so arranged as to check her progress. The risk in sailing too close to the wind was that the vessel would get too close into the wind and be "taken aback" stopped "dead in the water."

The ship having the weather gage is able to approach the enemy more directly. The other ship must maneuver more often, each maneuver putting her in irons -- having no wind support for her sails, which slows the ship considerably. When a ship sails into the wind and stops forward motion (usually not on purpose), it is said to be "in Irons". The sails are flapping and so is the rudder -- nothing is working. If the boat doesn't have enough forward momentum at the time, it can be stopped by a wave and loses "steerageway." When the boat is "dead in the water," the rudder is useless because there is no water flow past it to be deflected. Since the ship is headed directly into the wind, the sails are shaking, (luffing). It is necessary to fill the sails with wind in order to gain forward motion and steerageway. The crew will quickly push out a sail into the flow of wind to develop some pressure to turn the stalled ship. Once the ship is turned, the sails can be properly trimmed and the ship will regain speed through the water - and the rudder will again function.

To "take the wind out of his sails" was a maneuver by which one vessel would pass close to windward of another, thereby blanketing the breeze from the other's canvas and making him lose way. A ship with the weather gage would steal their wind, as the sails are not only capturing the wind to propel the ship, but blocking the wind from the enemy's sails.

Another advantage of having the weather gage involves heeling. The wind causes a vessel to heel -- to lean away from the wind. A ship with the weather gage will lean away from the wind and toward the enemy. Conversely, the enemy, if attempting a parallel tack to engage his broadside, will be leaning away. This means the guns of the ship with the weather gage are depressed in relation to the enemy. This gives a much easier time bringing them to bear, using the elevation quoins -- wedges at the rear of the cannon designed to elevate the gun. The enemy's guns will be elevated even without the quoins and he will have to struggle to bring them to bear.

A major factor in battles at sea was the improvement in sailing made possible by using a full ship rig. The improved handling ability of these vessels made it easier for a ship to avoid a boarding action. Square Riggers were very maneuverable ships capable of intricate sailing. Their only disadvantage was an inability to sail very close to the wind.
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'Vast heaving! Belay there, I say!

[Roland]

[Tom Pullings]

Cap'n Blood,
Excellent sailing discussion! With a bit of history too.

[Dave the Knave]

[Captain Blood]

I would like to be able to say I knew all that sailing information, but all I did was cut and paste it from a site on historical sailing techniques.
I have sailed small ships quite a bit but not in over twenty years. While I could likely still sail a small, single masted boat without too much trouble, a ship rig would leave me mystified beyond belief.
I sure would like to handle one some day, with an experienced crew to do the actual work of course. That day, however, is not anywhere in sight.

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'Vast heaving! Belay there, I say!

[Roland]

[Sashanan]

My knowledge of French and British warfare has never gone beyond the French wearing blue as long range camouflage, and the British wearing red to make injuries less obvious and thus save morale.

Which of course leads to that old joke of the ship captain insisting his red shirt is fetched when an enemy ship approaches, giving the reason above when asked why - and on the next day, when a fleet of enemy ships approaches, calling for his brown pants.
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"Any fool can defend his or her mistakes; and most fools do." -- Dale Carnegie

[Captain Blood]

I've wanted those brown pants on more than one occaission myself.


Roland,
Funny you should say that about a fantasty camp, because mine may have come true.
A very good friend of my son has just inherited a real, fully functioning and sailing, historically accurate Spanish Galleon replica. Apparently his grandfather has owned it for a number of years, I have NO idea where he got it.
It's berthed in Texas, and that's about all I know about it right now.
I've known this kid for a number of years and I introduced him to Pirates a while ago. He's been an enthusiast ever since.
He told me about his grandfathers galleon a while back, but I figured he was, for lack of a better way to put it, pulling my leg. Or at best exaggerating.
But apparently not. He showed me the pictures of it that his father sent him, along with the letter letting him know it will soon be legally and fully his, just last night.
He's already told me that he plans to move there and live on it, as his grandfather did for the last fifteen years, and that I am welcome to come down and visit any time I'd like.
So...
I'm quite happy about this, as you can imagine.
My game plan is to move to the Tampa area in FL within the next two years. That's right across a large pond from where he's moored...
It's starting to seem that I may actually get my chance to sail a real Pirate type sailing vessel after all.
Can't say for sure, I know how these kinds of things can turn, but this is the closest I've ever come to an opportunity to do anything like it.
At the least, I got to see some awesome photos of the thing. It's quite pretty. It's not as big as I'd have thought, but it's got the shape of a galleon and it sure aint small.
I'm going to get more details on it as I can. He dropped in on his way to a family function and only had a minute, so I couldn't get much out of him in the way of how many men it takes to crew it, that sort of thing.
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'Vast heaving! Belay there, I say!

[Dave the Knave]

[Undershaft]

So I've been playing a new game over the last few days for the purpose of learning the Brig class. I've used Brig class vessels exclusively for about 12 game years so far. I like them. It took a while to learn the sailing characteristics, but once I had that down I was good to go. I found I don't have much use for the Brigantine, too small. The Brig is a nice medium sized vessel. 24 guns and it sails well. The Brig Of War really is as good as the Frigate. Just as many guns and tons, and it sails like a champ. I've sold every Frigate I've captured this game in favor of the Brigs, which is a first for me. The named pirates didn't stand a chance against my Brig of War. I'm not sure, but it seems like the Brigs are cheaper to repair and upgrade compared to the Frigate class. I now have new respect for a class of ships I had previously dismissed.

Captain Blood: I have actually sailed on a replica of a seventeenth century English cargo ship. Mayflower II, berthed in Plymouth Massachusetts. She most resembles the Trade Galleon from the game. I have sailed three times as an active crew member and twice as a passenger. The first two times crewing I was on the Main Deck handling lines for the MainCourse (the lowest sail on the main mast) and the Main Topsail. The third time crewing I was aloft in the rigging on the Foremast. I was on the starboard side of the ForeCourse Yard. It was an incredible experience wearing a period correct costume and being in the rigging of an authentic 17th century ship (effectively right out of Pirates!) as she bounded up and down over the ocean while setting and stowing sail. I also got the opportunity to man the helm and steer her under sail. They didn't use a wheel in the early 1600's (The New Colonists) they used a Whipstaff. Basically a lever attatched to the tiller . You can't see when manning the helm, you recieve orders through a grated hatch in the deck above your head. I kept her on course using the points on a functioning replica of a 17th century compass. Very cool stuff!!!! The two times I sailed as a passenger I was in period correct costume doing filming and photo shoots for a movie and a couple of books. I'm actually in a short film and in numerous photos in a book about the Mayflower published by National Geographic. Sailing on Mayflower II five times is definately in the top ten highlights of my life.

I hope you get the chance to go sailing on your buddies' ship. It will be a memory that lasts forever.